{"id":116,"date":"2019-12-04T00:05:50","date_gmt":"2019-12-03T19:05:50","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wfae.report\/thelist\/?p=116"},"modified":"2019-12-04T00:16:25","modified_gmt":"2019-12-04T05:16:25","slug":"episode-3-the-why","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/wfae.report\/thelist\/episode-3-the-why\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 3: The Why"},"content":{"rendered":"<audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-116-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"https:\/\/cpa.ds.npr.org\/wfae\/audio\/2019\/12\/1203EP3WITHMIDROLL.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"https:\/\/cpa.ds.npr.org\/wfae\/audio\/2019\/12\/1203EP3WITHMIDROLL.mp3\">https:\/\/cpa.ds.npr.org\/wfae\/audio\/2019\/12\/1203EP3WITHMIDROLL.mp3<\/a><\/audio>\n<p>In this episode of &#8220;The List,&#8221; we learn about why survivors of abuse in the Catholic Church and proponents of accountability push for the release of lists of credibly accused clergy. We also hear some theories as to why certain people might push back against the release of such lists. And we hear from a local deacon about why he thinks the church should talk about the crisis openly. There&#8217;s another why we learn about, too \u2014 why some people in power abuse children in the first place.<!--more--><!--more--><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">The following includes descriptions about sexual violence. Please be advised.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">READ THE TRANSCRIPT:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Episode 3: The Why<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">SARAH DELIA:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">If you can remember something that happened to you, why is it important to have a written record? Why do you need other people to know? And why would you want them to?\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">In the case of sexual abuse survivors who are waiting for the Charlotte Diocese to release a list of credibly accused clergy, it comes down to one word: acknowledgment<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">ROBBY<\/span><\/b><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0PRICE<\/span><\/b><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">:\u202f<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">One of the main things that we struggle with is feeling like this was an isolated incident<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">nd we want to know that we&#8217;re validated<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0and we want to know that we&#8217;re heard. And<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0so<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0having a list that says<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">&#8220;<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">OK<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0yes that man did something that he shouldn\u2019t have done to me<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">&#8220;<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0it validates the survivors of sexual abuse to make them feel like they&#8217;re not the only one.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">DELIA:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">That\u2019s 35-year-old Robby Price<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">.<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">W<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">e heard his story in our last episode. Remember, when Price was 14 years old, he was sexually abused by Robert\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Yurgel<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, who served as a priest at St. Matthew in Charlotte. Price grew up in Charlotte and now lives in Florida. I reached him via\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">S<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">kype.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">And Price has some theories as to why the list hasn\u2019t been released yet. For one, he says, he believes there are more names on the list than the public realizes<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">A<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">nd\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">No. 2<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">:\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">PRICE<\/span><\/b><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I believe it\u2019s in their best interest not to release the list because it directly affects how much money the church is able to take in in the collection plate. I feel like that&#8217;s more important to them than anything.\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">DELIA:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Anthony, whose story was featured in Episode 1, agrees with Price. Anthony alleged in a civil lawsuit that he was abused by Richard Farwell in the 1980s. Farwell at one point served as a priest at St. Ann in Charlotte. Anthony was originally excited when he heard the Charlotte Diocese was going to release a list of credibly accused clergy, but the timing of that announcement led to more questions.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">ANTHONY:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I was happy that they would finally do that. Why they wouldn&#8217;t have done that years before if they&#8217;re credibly named people? Why not expose that so the community is aware?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">DELIA:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Anthony says he thinks the diocese is waiting to release the list to allow for the statute of limitations on lawsuits to run out.\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">ANTHONY:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">People are going to hear those names and then people are going to come forward. And the longer I can wait to release those names<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0the statute of limitations runs out. It&#8217;s intentional for them to do it that way. And that is sad. That\u2019s sad that that is their mentality that we&#8217;re going to wait to release these names until statutes are run out and this person and this person can&#8217;t, so we can minimize the damage.\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">DELIA:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">The law as of Dec. 1, 2019, in North Carolina says if you\u2019re abused as a minor you have until age 28 to file a civil lawsuit.\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">And Charlotte attorney Seth\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Langson<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, who represented both Anthony and Robby in their respective civil lawsuits<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0says he doesn\u2019t understand why the list hasn\u2019t been released.\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">LANGSON<\/span><\/b><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">They know which ones they think were credible. They know all the priests that were suspended or happened to get sent to another parish or something like that. They know that. I don&#8217;t know why they&#8217;re doing this.\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">DELIA:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">The Charlotte Diocese says it\u2019s waiting on U<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">.<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">S<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">.<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0ISS\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">A<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">gency, an independent investigative firm hired by the diocese, to finish its review of personnel records and documents dating back to 1972.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">In an email, the Charlotte Diocese said its publishing of the list is an effort to \u201chonor victims and help promote healing.\u201d\u202fThe diocese added that by all measures<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">the abuse is not ongoing today and that most of the allegations reported to the diocese since Bishop\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Jugis<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0took office in 2003 involve abuse that occurred decades before.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">The Charlotte Diocese says that guidelines and procedures outlined in the 2002\u00a0<\/span><a href=\"http:\/\/www.usccb.org\/issues-and-action\/child-and-youth-protection\/charter.cfm\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0are working. The\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">d<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">iocese says some 50,000 volunteers and parishioners have undergone training on what behaviors might signal\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">some kind of inappropriate<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0conduct.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">So<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, i<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">f the abuse isn\u2019t currently ongoing in the church and the charter is working, why has it taken so long for this\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">particular diocese<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0to release a list? At least 80% of the dioceses in the United States have already done so.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">There are so many whys when it comes to the history around the child abuse crisis in the Catholic Church. I wish I could answer all of them<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: W<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">hy was the abuse covered up for so long<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, w<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">hy is this the year the Charlotte Diocese says it will publish a list of credibly accused clergy?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">People outside the church have those questions<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">but<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0also<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">so do the faithful<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0\u2014 t<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">he ones who believe in the word of the church, the ones who preach it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">CHIP WILSON:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I think the crisis is something that we should talk about openly. I&#8217;m not afraid to discuss the institutional weaknesses of the church that I love, because I do love this church.<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u202f<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">DELIA:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">That\u2019s Chip Wilson. He\u2019s a deacon in the Charlotte Diocese. He can\u2019t do everything that a priest can<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, b<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">ut he can preside at weddings, baptisms and funerals. The biggest difference between a priest and a deacon is that deacons can be married<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">;<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0priests in the Catholic Church cannot. But he is an ordained member of the clergy.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">W<\/span><\/b><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">ILSON:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0I aspire in my own life to talk about my own faults openly<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, b<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">ut, you know, as a human being, I resist that at times. But I&#8217;ve found that there is healing and in being open and honest about whatever sin that I have<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">nd I think the same thing applies to the institution of the church. We need to be open about our faults and failings, because I know that when I&#8217;m open about my faults and failing<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">s<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, healing comes<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">nd I believe the same will hold true for the church.<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u202f<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">DELIA:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Wilson was raised Catholic\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">and\u202fgrew<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0up in Gaston County on St. Michael&#8217;s Lane, the same street as St. Michae<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">l,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0a Catholic Church.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">WILSON:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I was literally in the shadow of the church almost all my life. All my childhood and for a good chunk of my adult life, I&#8217;ve continued to live in my family home.\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">So,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0I would wake up every day or drive to work, and I would see the crucifix at St. Michael&#8217;s Church in Gastonia. The priest<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">s<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0were my neighbors for years. They used to live at the church.\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">DELIA:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Wilson says he received a significant amount of guidance as a young child and as a teenager from priests and nuns. He says he was never sexually abused by any member of the clergy<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, b<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">ut he does acknowledge that he had things in common with children who were \u201cgroomed\u201d by priests.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Wilson\u2019s family completely trusted priests. Wilson was around them at a time when he was young and impressionable. Wilson could have been an easy target for an abuser.\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">WILSON:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0I lost my dad when I was 5<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, s<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">o the priests filled an important role in my life. There was a trust relationship. That trust never was violated<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0and it was painful to hear later that in some cases for some people the trust was violated by priests.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">DELIA<\/span><\/b><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0Yeah<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0because that could have been you.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">WILSON:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0It could have been.\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">DELIA:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Wilson was glad to hear that diocese said it was committed to releasing a list by the end of the year. Wilson says he has been vocal to church officials about his strong feelings that a list should be released. He said he even wrote Bishop\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Jugis<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0a letter expressing those feelings in the early months of 2019.\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Wilson believes the list should be released for a few reasons. He wants it published to help survivors heal<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">nd he wants it released for the sake of parishioners who have a right to know which priests have been credibly accused.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">And then there\u2019s the building anticipation around the list. The longer the wait goes on, the more suspense grows. Who will be on it? Where and when did the abuse occur? And was the abuser ever punished?\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">WILSON:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Yeah, I&#8217;m very anxious about that. I believe the list should be released, but it&#8217;s going to be painful, especially if I see other names of priests that I&#8217;ve known. I don&#8217;t know who will show up on that list, but<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">i<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">t&#8217;ll be\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">really hard<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0if I see other names of people that I knew as priests.\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">DELIA:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Because that\u2019s already happened for Chip Wilson. He\u2019s known priests who have served at some point within the Charlotte Diocese\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">who<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0were named on other\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">&#8220;<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">credibly accused<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">&#8220;<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0lists published from other dioceses.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I mentioned before, Chip Wilson has known priests who have served at some point within the Charlotte Diocese\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">who<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0were named on other\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">&#8220;<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">credibly accused<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">&#8220;<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0lists published from other dioceses<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0\u2014 l<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">ike Donald Scales.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">His name was printed on the\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Richmond<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0(Virginia) Diocese&#8217;s<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0list when it was released in February 2019. Scales was accused of sexually abusing a minor at St. Michael\u2019s Parrish in Gastonia, where Wilson went to church.\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">WILSON:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Father Donald Scales was a was known as a person, not just among Catholics but guys in the neighborhood<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0\u2014 s<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">omeone that you could talk to who was a good counselor and friend. And he was extremely well respected. It turns out that he was accused and found credibly accused of abuse of a minor back in the 1970s when he was at St. Michael. I had no idea. And it\u2019s kind of bracing to think that it could have been or most likely someone was a friend of mine or someone I was acquainted with.\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">DELIA:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Scales denied that allegation that came forward in 2006<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">.<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">H<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">e was removed from ministry that same year. He died in 2008.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">There was another familiar name to Chip Wilson\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">that\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">was also published on the\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">D<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">iocese of Richmond\u2019s list. It was Frederick George<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0another priest who also served at St. Michael. George was moved throughout his career<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0taking various assignments and leaves of absence. He was permanently dismissed from ministry in 2004.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">WILSON:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">He was someone that I knew well enough that I\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">actually took<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0part, I was a reader at his first\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">M<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">ass. He had taught at my parochial school in Gastonia<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">nd I got to know him that way<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\"> then he asked that I take part in his first\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">M<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">ass. It was an honor<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">nd that&#8217;s\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">actually a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0fond memory. I have only fond memories of him<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">nd it&#8217;s<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0you know, it&#8217;s very disturbing to hear that there was this other side that I didn&#8217;t see.\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">DELIA:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Chip Wilson has continued to weather the storm the Catholic Church pushes through. He\u2019s seen ugly parts of the church and helped to document them. In his former life, Wilson was a reporter for the Charlotte Observer.\u202fPart of his job was to copyedit articles that came across the wire, so he saw reports from other publications like the Boston Globe, including articles from the Globe\u2019s Spotlight team detailing the child abuse crisis in the Catholic Church and the coverup that went along with it.\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">WILSON:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I wound up editing a lot of those stories that wound up in the paper because I had a certain expertise as an active Catholic. Surprisingly, even reading all that negative news about the church, it didn&#8217;t make me want to shy away from the church. Instead, it had the opposite effect. I found myself wanting to get more involved and involved in a very big way in the institution<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0\u2014 a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">s an aspiring deacon, as an ordained member of the clergy<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">.<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">S<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">omehow<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0in a mysterious way, I was drawn toward more active service and role to the church\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">in spite of<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0the unfolding crisis.<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u202f<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">DELIA:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">That\u2019s partly because Wilson says he had a desire to shape the thing that shaped him<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0\u2014\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">the church. And he wanted to give back what the church gave him. In Wilson\u2019s case, that was\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">a safe haven<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">.\u202f\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">As a journalist, Wilson also covered crime. Some of that crime was sex abuse cases. He would have to interview police officers, victims, and<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0on occasion<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0he says, perpetrators. He saw that bad things happened everywhere. And<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0for sure<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0sexual abuse does take place in organizations like the Boy Scouts or within public schools.\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">But the abuse that took place within the church was different, not just because of the practice of moving accused priests from\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">parish<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0to\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">parish<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, but because<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0Wilson says, of who the church claims to be.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">WILSON<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">:<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">The public schools and the Boy Scouts don&#8217;t present themselves as the church of Jesus Christ on the Earth. We are held to a higher standard.\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">So,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0when the abuse happens in a church context, I think it&#8217;s much worse because we should know better. The scripture tells us those to whom much has been given, much is required<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">nd\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">so<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0I do expect the church to be judged more harshly because we purport to be the face of Christ to the world. And when we don&#8217;t live up to that,\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">yeah,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0I think we need to be slapped a little harder.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">DELIA:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">When Wilson talks about his role in the Catholic Church and his faith, sometimes the abuse crisis will come up. He says if he talks to someone who\u2019s been affected by it, maybe they were abused themselves or know someone who was, he apologizes on behalf of the church. We can\u2019t say that enough<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0he says.\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">He wants the list from the Charlotte Diocese, the diocese where he works and grew up in, to be comprehensive. He wants to see not only the names of priests but their assignment histories<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: W<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">here did they work and for long<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, w<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">as the priest removed from ministry<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, d<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">id law enforcement get involved? And he wants to know what was done with the priest: Was he sent away for treatment?\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Of course,\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">all of<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0these questions circle around the big question that\u2019s hardest to answer but is crucial to ask when talking about sex abuse:\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Why do people of power who have been entrusted with the care of children<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0whether they be a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">priest, scout leader or teacher, sexually abuse children in the first place?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">MIKE YONKOVIG<\/span><\/b><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Well, that&#8217;s very complicated, of course, and not as clear<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">&#8211;<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">cut as some people, both professionally and just out in the world<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0believe it to be.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">DELIA:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">That\u2019s Mike\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Yonkovig<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, a psychologist in Charlotte. Not surprisingly, there\u2019s no clear-cut answer as to why adults sexually abuse children. There are various schools of thought.\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Yonkovig<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0says it\u2019s not as simple as saying if you experienced X then you\u2019ll\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">definitely perpetrate<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0against children as an adult.\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">However, he says, if you look at a sexual abuser\u2019s childhood, there can be some indicators that could be factors.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">YONKOVIG<\/span><\/b><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Being treated badly, you know, maltreatment, having lack of parental supervision, having all kinds of adjustments going on in the home, having very little emotional support from family and friends and not being taught things about sexuality and relationships<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">. T<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">hat plus any kind of antisocial behavior<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0\u2014<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0those are bigger predictors.\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">DELIA:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">The act of abuse isn\u2019t an urge, he says. He points out that we all have urges<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0\u2014\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">the urge to sleep, to eat, to have sex. Abusers aren\u2019t acting on an urge or even an impulse<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Yonkovig<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0say<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">s<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">. I<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">t\u2019s more of a compulsion.\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">YONKOVIG<\/span><\/b><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0They were not able to develop healthy sets of boundaries as to how to play out their sexuality. So<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0that goes back to the early stuff in childhood where if things are not good in home<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, i<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">f relationships are bad, if there aren&#8217;t good boundaries<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, i<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">f there&#8217;s not sort of openness in talking about sexuality and lots of other factors<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0and<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0certainly<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0if they\u2019ve been abused in different ways.\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">DELIA:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">But\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Yonkovig<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0is quick to point out what he calls a common misconception in his field. He says research shows it\u2019s not true that just because you were sexually abused as a child that you\u2019re more likely to be a perpetrator as an adult. That does happen, he says, but it\u2019s not the norm<\/span><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">.<\/span><\/i><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">When someone has sexually abused a minor, there\u2019s no quick cure or rushed treatment,\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Yonkovig<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0says.\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">In his opinion, the offender must be willing to take responsibility for their actions. And it\u2019s complicated because even though those actions were sexual, the abuse has more to do with power than sex<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0he says<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, w<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">hich is what makes children easy targets of abuse<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">. T<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">hey trust the adults around them<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0whether that\u2019s a teacher, a scout leader or a priest.\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">YONKOVIG<\/span><\/b><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0One of the real important things here is the realization that almost all kids know their abusers and that\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">the majority of<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0kids are being hurt by someone that&#8217;s trusted. So<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0if that&#8217;s the case, that means that if anyone has ever had any kind of problematic behaviors with kids, they must be taken out of that circumstance and they must get a very focused, intensive treatment and are held accountable for their behavior<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0\u2014<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0not by their inside group but by outside forces. And we can&#8217;t know my opinion whether it means they can ever be back to working with kids<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, b<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">ut what I am sure of is that there should be no stone left unturned in ever thinking about putting them near kids, and certainly not in any way the way the Catholic Church has done it<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, certainly<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0in the last bunch of years<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0\u2014 b<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">ut truth be tol<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">d \u2014<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0has always done it that way.\u202f\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">DELIA:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I told you there are a lot of whys in this episode<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">nd I really wish I had more answers for you<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0\u2014<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">w<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">hy this abuse occurs and why certain people are more likely than others to commit it<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">There is one thing that Chip Wilson, the former reporter now\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">a\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">deacon, said to me that really stuck. He used the word pain, by my count, eight different times throughout our interview. He talked about the pain of the survivors and the pain of seeing the names on the list that some who knew priests not as\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">abusers<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0but as trusted friends will undoubtedly feel.\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">He told me he thinks the Charlotte\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">D<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">iocese was convinced that releasing a list was the right thing to do<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, b<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">ut that it was going to be painful, and it\u2019s hard to do painful things.\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">The simplicity of that sentence makes a lot of sense to me. It is going to be painful for the church to\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">publicly<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0air this ugly, horrible part of what the church says is part of its past, not present. It is going to be painful for some survivors to see names of their abusers, even if they want the list. And it will be painful for survivors who are surprised to see that the name of their\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">abuser\u202fis<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0nowhere to be found. And it will be painful for the Charlotte\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">D<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">iocese<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, w<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">hether that pain comes from a hit in the collection plate<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0as Robby Price thinks, or more of a spiritual pain<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0\u2014<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0or both.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">And yes, it is hard to do painful things. And it\u2019s also hard to do the right thing. And sometimes, those are one in the same.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Next time we talk about the when<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0\u2014\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">when the list is eventually published, what can survivors expect?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">W<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">e want to hear your comments, questions, and stories. If you\u2019ve experienced abuse within the Catholic Church or have <\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">a\u00a0<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">particular question<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0you\u2019d like explored, leave us a voice memo at 704-448-6511. You don\u2019t have to leave your name but know your audio may be published online or the air. You can email\u00a0<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Sarah\u00a0<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">directly at\u00a0<\/span><\/i><\/b><a href=\"mailto:sdelia@wfae.org\"><b><i><span data-contrast=\"none\">sdelia@wfae.org<\/span><\/i><\/b><\/a><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">.\u202f<\/span><\/i><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u2014-<\/span><\/i><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u201c<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">The List<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u201c<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0is reported, hosted, and produced by\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.wfae.org\/people\/sarah-delia\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Sarah Delia<\/a>.<\/span><\/i><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Greg Collard is the editor<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">,<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0with additional editing support from Ju-Don Marshall.<\/span><\/i><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Alex\u00a0<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Olgin<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0helped with the fact-checking and production of this series.<\/span><\/i><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><em><strong>Illustrations and designs were created by Greg Harris.<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Web production was by Jennifer Lang and Dashiell Coleman.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">You can find\u00a0<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Sarah<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0on\u00a0<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">T<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">witter\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/SarahWFAE\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">@<\/a><\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">SarahWFAE<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">. Keep the conversation going with the hashtag #<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">WFAE<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">thelist<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">.<\/span><\/i><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u202fIf you are interested in more episodes like this, make sure you check out earlier episodes in the\u00a0<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u201c<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">She Says<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u201c<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0serie<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">s. \u201c<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">She Says<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u201c<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0is an investigative podcast that follows the winding road a sexual assault survivor must navigate in order find justice and healing. Find She Says\u00a0<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">where ever<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0you find your podcasts or at\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/wfae.report\/shesays\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">wfae.org\/<\/a><\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">shesays<\/span><\/i><\/b><b><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">.\u202f<\/span><\/i><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In this episode of &#8220;The List,&#8221; we learn about why survivors of abuse in the Catholic Church and proponents of accountability push for the release of lists of credibly accused clergy. We also hear some theories as to why certain people might push back against the release of such lists. And we hear from a &hellip; <\/p>\n<p class=\"link-more\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wfae.report\/thelist\/episode-3-the-why\/\" class=\"more-link\">Continue reading<span class=\"screen-reader-text\"> &#8220;Episode 3: The Why&#8221;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":210,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"nf_dc_page":"","om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[3],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-116","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-podcast"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.5 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Episode 3: The Why - The List From WFAE<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/wfae.report\/thelist\/episode-3-the-why\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Episode 3: The Why - The List From WFAE\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"In this episode of &#8220;The List,&#8221; we learn about why survivors of abuse in the Catholic Church and proponents of accountability push for the release of lists of credibly accused clergy. 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And we hear from a &hellip; Continue reading &quot;Episode 3: The Why&quot;\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/wfae.report\/thelist\/episode-3-the-why\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"The List From WFAE\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/WFAE\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2019-12-03T19:05:50+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2019-12-04T05:16:25+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/wfae.report\/thelist\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/The-Priest-scaled.jpg?fit=2560%2C1440&ssl=1\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"2560\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"1440\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Sarah Delia\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@WFAE\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:site\" content=\"@WFAE\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Sarah Delia\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"18 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/wfae.report\\\/thelist\\\/episode-3-the-why\\\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/wfae.report\\\/thelist\\\/episode-3-the-why\\\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Sarah Delia\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/wfae.report\\\/thelist\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/dc8e061af5a287bd5e715c55d7024aed\"},\"headline\":\"Episode 3: The Why\",\"datePublished\":\"2019-12-03T19:05:50+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2019-12-04T05:16:25+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/wfae.report\\\/thelist\\\/episode-3-the-why\\\/\"},\"wordCount\":3677,\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/wfae.report\\\/thelist\\\/#organization\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/wfae.report\\\/thelist\\\/episode-3-the-why\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/i0.wp.com\\\/wfae.report\\\/thelist\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2019\\\/12\\\/The-Priest-scaled.jpg?fit=2560%2C1440&ssl=1\",\"articleSection\":[\"Podcast\"],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/wfae.report\\\/thelist\\\/episode-3-the-why\\\/\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/wfae.report\\\/thelist\\\/episode-3-the-why\\\/\",\"name\":\"Episode 3: The Why - 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