{"id":221,"date":"2020-03-05T00:05:35","date_gmt":"2020-03-05T05:05:35","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wfae.report\/insidepolitics\/?p=221"},"modified":"2020-03-04T18:40:46","modified_gmt":"2020-03-04T23:40:46","slug":"the-rise-of-the-shadow-convention-after-being-evicted-from-the-2016-rnc-bob-orr-plans-his-own","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/wfae.report\/insidepolitics\/the-rise-of-the-shadow-convention-after-being-evicted-from-the-2016-rnc-bob-orr-plans-his-own\/","title":{"rendered":"The Rise Of The Shadow Convention: After Being Evicted From The 2016 RNC, Bob Orr Plans His Own"},"content":{"rendered":"<figure id=\"attachment_235\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-235\" style=\"width: 2560px\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-235\" src=\"https:\/\/wfae.report\/insidepolitics\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/27802913143_13bd162cfd_o-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1689\" srcset=\"https:\/\/wfae.report\/insidepolitics\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/27802913143_13bd162cfd_o-scaled.jpg 2560w, https:\/\/wfae.report\/insidepolitics\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/27802913143_13bd162cfd_o-300x198.jpg 300w, https:\/\/wfae.report\/insidepolitics\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/27802913143_13bd162cfd_o-1024x675.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/wfae.report\/insidepolitics\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/27802913143_13bd162cfd_o-768x507.jpg 768w, https:\/\/wfae.report\/insidepolitics\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/27802913143_13bd162cfd_o-1536x1013.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\" \/><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-235\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">The 2016 Republican National Convention in Cleveland was not without controversy. | Flickr\/ ABC\/ Fred Watkins<br \/>ARENA<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-221-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"https:\/\/wfae-od.streamguys1.com\/ip\/InsidePolitics03042020.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"https:\/\/wfae-od.streamguys1.com\/ip\/InsidePolitics03042020.mp3\">https:\/\/wfae-od.streamguys1.com\/ip\/InsidePolitics03042020.mp3<\/a><\/audio>\n<p>Four years ago, a delegate at the Republican National Convention said this: \u201cI cannot vote for Donald Trump, either for the nomination or in November.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>That was former North Carolina Supreme Court justice Robert Orr, who attended the 2016 RNC in Cleveland as a delegate for former Ohio Gov. John Kasich.<\/p>\n<p>That comment led him to be kicked out of the Cleveland convention \u2013 and led him to plan a \u201cshadow convention\u201d of Never Trump Republicans that may run alongside the RNC in Charlotte in August.<\/p>\n<p><!--more--><\/p>\n<p>\u201cYou know, I tell folks my first presidential ballot was for Richard Nixon,\u201d Orr said in an interview. \u201cI voted for every Republican running for president up until Trump. I hung with Nixon until the end on Watergate.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Today Orr is retired, but teaches a weekly class on the North Carolina state constitution at the UNC School of Law in Chapel Hill, where he graduated in the early 1970s.<\/p>\n<p>He said he noticed the Republican Party was moving to the right during his run for governor 12 years ago (he lost in the Republican primary to Pat McCrory), and then again with the Tea Party movement in 2010.<\/p>\n<p>And when Trump began his rise, Orr was appalled &#8212; mostly by the president\u2019s character. And when Trump first came on the scene, he was convinced he was going to flame out after he insulted John McCain in the summer of 2015.<\/p>\n<p>Trump said McCain was only a war hero because he was captured.<\/p>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"IA-TRUMP ON JOHN MCCAIN- &quot;HE&quot;S NOT A WAR HERO&quot;\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/wefb0ESoVDo?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>\u201cTo me it was so over-the-top in disrespecting not just Sen. McCain but the service of all the people who have served in the military, suffered and the like,\u201d Orr said. \u201cAnd there were no consequences to it? I think at that point I said, &#8216;This is insane, this should have completely ended any chance this man has of holding any elected office.&#8217;\u201d<\/p>\n<p>During the Republican primaries, Orr supported Kasich. And the state Republican Party picked him to be a Kasich delegate for the RNC.<\/p>\n<p>Kasich was the last candidate standing in opposition to Trump. Texas Sen. Ted Cruz dropped out May 3, 2016 and then Kasich quit a day later.<\/p>\n<p>Orr said he went to the 2016 Republican National Convention in Cleveland thinking there might be a way to stop Trump. He thought that a combination of Kasich, Rubio and Cruz delegates \u2013 along with establishment Republicans \u2013 might band together to deny Trump the nomination.<\/p>\n<p>There was a brief uprising. A group of delegates attempted to force a roll-call vote to change convention rules in an effort to release some of Trump\u2019s delegates, so they could vote for other candidates.<\/p>\n<p>Orr said he realized quickly that Trump was going to get the nomination.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cOnce I got there it was like, &#8216;This train is running,&#8217;\u201d he said. \u201cIf you are on the tracks you are going to get run over.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>But on the first day of the RNC, Orr agreed to give <a href=\"https:\/\/www.wral.com\/former-nc-justice-trump-would-be-danger-to-the-country-\/15860550\/\">an interview with Cullen Browder of WRAL<\/a> in Raleigh.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_223\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-223\" style=\"width: 300px\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-223 size-medium\" src=\"https:\/\/wfae.report\/insidepolitics\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/boborr-300x180.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"180\" srcset=\"https:\/\/wfae.report\/insidepolitics\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/boborr-300x180.png 300w, https:\/\/wfae.report\/insidepolitics\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/boborr-451x270.png 451w, https:\/\/wfae.report\/insidepolitics\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/boborr.png 551w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-223\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Former NC Supreme Court Justice Bob Orr was interviewed by WRAL during the 2016 RNC. He said Donald Trump was &#8220;singularly unqualified&#8221; to be president<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>\u201cI can not vote for Donald Trump, either for the nomination or in November,\u201d Orr said.<\/p>\n<p>Browder asked why.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI think he\u2019s singularly unqualified to lead this country.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>That interview caught the attention of the state\u2019s top Republicans, who acted swiftly.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cAnd as soon as that aired back in North Carolina, the credentials got pulled,\u201d Orr said.<\/p>\n<p>He said he went back to his hotel room.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI\u2019m checking emails and here\u2019s an email, I think it\u2019s from (former GOP state executive director) Dallas Woodhouse, saying, &#8216;Your credentials are being held. You need to talk to the chairman, here\u2019s his phone number,&#8217;\u201d he said.<\/p>\n<p>The chairman of the state GOP then was Robin Hayes. Two years after the RNC, Hayes was caught up in the FBI\u2019s investigation of Durham businessman Greg Lindberg, whose trial concluded this week in\u00a0 federal court in Charlotte.<\/p>\n<p>Lindberg is accused of trying to bribe the state insurance commissioner, and Hayes was allegedly part of the scheme.<\/p>\n<p>Hayes pleaded guilty last fall to lying to the FBI. He hasn\u2019t been sentenced yet.<\/p>\n<p>In the same news story on WRAL, Browder also interviewed Hayes, who said it\u2019s OK for delegates to have a difference of opinion.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThis is something that we encourage (for) Republicans to have a voice, stand up for what they believe,\u201d Hayes said. \u201cWe have a number of people who are very strong supporters for other candidates.\u201d<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_224\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-224\" style=\"width: 300px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-224 size-medium\" src=\"https:\/\/wfae.report\/insidepolitics\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/robinhayes-300x189.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"189\" srcset=\"https:\/\/wfae.report\/insidepolitics\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/robinhayes-300x189.png 300w, https:\/\/wfae.report\/insidepolitics\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/robinhayes-429x270.png 429w, https:\/\/wfae.report\/insidepolitics\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/robinhayes.png 515w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-224\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Robin Hayes, the former chair of the NC GOP, said he was OK with delegates not supporting Trump. But he revoked Orr&#8217;s convention credentials.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>But Hayes took action.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cIt was pretty clear that I wasn\u2019t going to get the credentials back if I didn\u2019t make some sort of 180 and say, &#8216;Well I\u2019ll support Trump,&#8217;\u201d Orr said.<\/p>\n<p>As a Kasich delegate, Orr said he would be allowed, or expected, to vote for Kasich on the first ballot.<\/p>\n<p>And Orr wasn\u2019t alone. There were North Carolina Cruz delegates who also got sideways with Robin Hayes.<\/p>\n<p>In his <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=6cxrW3Yzh3A\">convention speech<\/a>, Cruz told delegates to \u201cStand, and speak and vote your conscience. Vote for candidates up and down the ticket who you trust to defend our freedom and to be faithful to the Constitution.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Orr said Hayes asked two North Carolina Cruz delegates what they thought of the speech.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cAnd they said, &#8216;Yeah we agreed with him,&#8217;\u201d Orr said. \u201cAnd Hayes told them, &#8216;Well, they\u2019ll have to find other transportation back to North Carolina because you\u2019re not flying back on my plane.&#8217;\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Orr said the decision to throw him out was wrong \u2013 and dangerous.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cAnd that really is in a lot of ways the scariest part &#8212; is the mindset that you better be with us, or you are out,\u201d he said. \u201cI mean, there is no room for legitimate dissent. And we\u2019ve seen \u2013 not just my small incident at the convention but the way the Senate and other elected officials have just completely folded and gone along in so many different ways with things that I know they know are wrong &#8212; but it\u2019s this, &#8216;If you\u2019re not 100% with us, you are 100% against us.&#8217; Which is terrible government. It\u2019s dangerous to the party. It\u2019s dangerous for the Democrats.\u201d<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_226\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-226\" style=\"width: 300px\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-226 size-medium\" src=\"https:\/\/wfae.report\/insidepolitics\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/RNC-roll-call-300x177.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"177\" srcset=\"https:\/\/wfae.report\/insidepolitics\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/RNC-roll-call-300x177.png 300w, https:\/\/wfae.report\/insidepolitics\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/RNC-roll-call-768x454.png 768w, https:\/\/wfae.report\/insidepolitics\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/RNC-roll-call-457x270.png 457w, https:\/\/wfae.report\/insidepolitics\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/RNC-roll-call.png 877w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-226\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">The North Carolina delegation announces its votes during a roll call in the 2016 RNC<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>Orr said he doesn\u2019t have any contact with the leaders in the GOP, except when they have asked him to un-register as a Republican.<\/p>\n<p>But he refuses to become an unaffiliated voter or a Democrat. And he said he\u2019s planning a shadow convention in Charlotte during the RNC.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI think it\u2019s important,\u201d Orr said. \u201cWhat I have to do is find those people with a national presence who are willing to say, \u2018Yeah we are going to invest some time and money into this so the world knows that Trumpism isn\u2019t what we believe in.\u2019 \u201d<\/p>\n<p>But it\u2019s unclear if the so-called shadow convention will work. Some of the state\u2019s establishment Republicans aren\u2019t ready yet to sign on, like former Charlotte Mayor Richard Vinroot. He said earlier this week that Trump isn\u2019t his favorite \u2013 but that he wouldn\u2019t attend any protest.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cYou really are homeless politically, and so therefore it becomes difficult to pull together the financial resources, the logistical resources,\u00a0 to say, &#8216;OK, we\u2019re going to have 1,000 anti-Trump Republicans from across the country show up in the vicinity of Charlotte,&#8217;\u201d Orr said.<\/p>\n<p>But he added: \u201cEven if it\u2019s just one or two of us standing up, you gotta do it. I mean I just think it\u2019s too important.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Orr may be getting some help from Washington D.C.<\/p>\n<p>Evan McMullin is a former CIA officer who ran as a third-party candidate in 2016, and got more than 20% of the vote in his home state of Utah. He said this week that he and his group \u2013 <a href=\"https:\/\/standuprepublic.com\/\">Stand Up Republic<\/a> \u2013 have been in touch with Orr about a secondary convention during the RNC.<\/p>\n<p>Orr also addressed a question that the city of Charlotte has wrestled with.<\/p>\n<p>Should the city of Charlotte have agreed to host the convention?<\/p>\n<p>\u201cNo,\u201d Orr said. \u201cI think they made the wrong call. I think it will ultimately not serve the city of Charlotte and the state of North Carolina well to have the RNC convention there in 2020.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>He continued: \u201cI mean, is that really the message that we want broadcast from Charlotte, North Carolina, to the world over the course of three of four days? And it will be vitriolic. I mean, that\u2019s his modus operandi. That\u2019s the wrong message for the state, it\u2019s the wrong message for the country and it\u2019s the wrong message to the world.\u00a0 I just regret that Charlotte is going to be tainted with that message.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><em><a href=\"https:\/\/wfae.report\/insidepolitics\/how-to-listen\/\">Click\u00a0here<\/a> to subscribe to the Inside Politics podcast (and to give the podcast a rating\/review in your favorite podcast app).<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>Want more? You can <a href=\"https:\/\/www.wfae.org\/newsletters-0#stream\/1\">sign up here<\/a> for our weekly Inside Politics newsletter, written by Steve Harrison.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>Have a question about the 2020 RNC in Charlotte? Ask us below. <\/em><br \/>\n<script async src=\"https:\/\/modules.wearehearken.com\/wfae\/embed\/4617.js\"><\/script><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Four years ago, a delegate at the Republican National Convention said this: \u201cI cannot vote for Donald Trump, either for the nomination or in November.\u201d That was former North Carolina Supreme Court justice Robert Orr, who attended the 2016 RNC in Cleveland as a delegate for former Ohio Gov. John Kasich. That comment led him &hellip; <\/p>\n<p class=\"read-more\"><a class=\"btn btn-default\" href=\"https:\/\/wfae.report\/insidepolitics\/the-rise-of-the-shadow-convention-after-being-evicted-from-the-2016-rnc-bob-orr-plans-his-own\/\"> Read More<span class=\"screen-reader-text\">  Read More<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[5],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-221","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.9 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>The Rise Of The Shadow Convention: After Being Evicted From The 2016 RNC, Bob Orr Plans His Own : Inside Politics<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Former North Carolina Supreme Court justice Robert Orr was kicked out of the 2016 RNC for not supporting Donald Trump. 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